• Registered: 2006-11-29
  • Posts: 8

Topic: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Hi. I'm a legally deaf/blind gamer. I've got a few issues I'd like to cover here.

1. You should make a section for people with more than one disability here on this forum, because I didn't really know where to post this topic...

2. I'd like to know what some disabled gamers think about the new Nintendo Wii... I haven't had the luxury of testing one out myself yet, but I can foresee a few problems that may exist between the Wii and disabled gamers... Of note, 1. People who are legally blind (such as myself) may sit very close to the TV... I can imagine that this would make it difficult for them to play using the motion sensing controls, as there really isn't much space between them and the TV to be moving their hands all around... and 2. Physically disabled gamers may not be able to stand up to play some of the Wii games...

3. I think there should be an option in all games to allow the player to switch from auto- to manually-scrolling text/dialogue and vice versa. A lot of newer games simply have voiced-over dialogue and captioning at the bottom of the screen that moves as the characters speak. This is not accessible to people such as myself, who cannot hear the voice-overs and cannot read the captioning fast enough. They should have an option to turn off the auto-scroll, so that you push a button to manually scroll through the text, as was done with older games and is still done with a good deal of the RPGs, however, action and shooting games have almost entirely been switched to voice-overs with auto-scrolling text/dialogue, which makes them inaccessible to people such as myself...

I'd like to hear your thoughts on these issues.

  • Sander
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-02-03
  • Posts: 157

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Hi Eight-Ball!
Great to see you here at the forum. So far you're the first deaf/blind gamer I've heard of. Very good, because this benefits to the awareness that there in fact are gamers with multiple impairments. Thanks for your comments.

Concerning 1. Yes, we could make another room if you like, although there is already a large number of rooms. However, one great benefit is that it contributes to the awareness that gamers with multiple handicaps exist, which is not clear right now out of the structure of the forum. I think it would be wise to make such a room. Which title do you prefer? Gamers with multiple disabilities? Can we make you the moderator of that room? The idea of the moderator is that this person with expertise is the representative for this room.

3. This is an issue that shows that a gamer with multiple handicaps might experience limitations or shortcomings of the solutions we have now. I think it would be very interesting to find more of these cases, especially because solving these problems could in fact be quite simple. 

Do you play many games? Which games do you like to play? What do you encounter, which solutions work best for you and which problems are hard to overcome?

Creative Heroes: http://creativehero.es

Sander's Website

  • Registered: 2006-11-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

I think "Gamers with Multiple Disabilities" is fine for a title, and I'd be happy to be the moderator.

I can think of at least 3 other legally deaf/blind people who like to play video gzmes. They all have varying levels of impairment, and thus have different issues with the games they play. I actually have a physical handicap as well, but it doesn't really inhibit my ability to play video games...

I play a lot of video games; I've been a gamer since back on the NES... I currently have a GameCube and a PlayStatiion 2, and am going to buy an Xbox 360 or a Wii. I am going to test out the Wii soon, to decide if it is accessible to me.

I've encountered several problems with games over the years...

1. Handhelds: I use a CCTV to read books, and back on the GameBoy Color, I used my CCTV to play my handheld games. However, the newer handheld systems use a different kind of screen from the GameBoy Color, and this conflicts with the CCTV, making the screen look very dark under the CCTV's magnifier. When Nintendo made the GameBoy Player for the GameCube, which lets you play GameBoy Advance games on your TV screen, I was very happy, as this made the GameBoy Advance accessible to me. However, the DS and PSP are still beyond my reach...

2. PC Games: You may be familiar with the program ZoomText... Well, I use ZoomText to work on the computer. In order to play online games (Guild Wars comes to mind), I need ZoomText in order to read the in-game text. However, ZoomText cannot handle graphics and the game (using Guild Wars as an example) will override the program, reducing the enlargement size back to normal and wreaking havoc with the computer. The need to make an enlargement program like ZoomText that can handle graphics, and can thus be used for PC games...

3. Text Boxes: Sometimes games have text that is too small. Other times, the text boxes have bad contrast (white on light blue??? Can ANYONE read that??? Just an example that I have encountered...).

4. Auto-Scrolling Dialogue: I've already covered this more or less... A very good example of a game that was rendered completely inaccessible to me due to auto-scrolling dialogue is Final Fantasy X... I was totally unable to figure out what was going on; even the casual NPC's had auto-scrolling dialogue, you just pushed a button to end the conversation after it was done scrolling... I couldn't stand that and just gave the game to one of my friends...

None of these issues I have been able to get past... On occasion, I can find the game script on the Internet for a game with inaccessible text (either due to problem 3 or 4), and just read it that way. I also can use walkthroughs on the Internet or Player's Guides to help me figure out what to do if the text is inaccessible and there is no available game script. Of course, I would prefer if the text was just made accessible in the actual game...

  • Registered: 2006-02-03
  • Posts: 294

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Hi Eight-ball,

Thanks for your interesting and informative post... Wondering about your CCTV problems. I've seen really good YouTube videos of the PSP taken using standard camcorders.

Could you not borrow someones standard video camera (with instructions), sort out the shutter-speed and contrast if necessary for the best results, then blow up the image onto a standard TV / PC Monitor?

Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk

  • Registered: 2006-11-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Hmmm... I could try that... I no longer have my PSP, though; I returned it after I saw it glared on the CCTV like the GBA/SP/DS do. But, I can borrow a PSP from one of my friends and tinker around with this idea. I don't think it will work as good with the DS, though, due to the 2 screens and whatnot... Thanks for the idea; I'll see what I can do with it. The equipment won't be hard to find. I'm just thinking actually setting it up will be the hardest part... Oh well...  I won't be able to try it immediately, as I am currently away from home. I'm at the Helen Keller National Center in New York (i.e.: no PSP access...), but I'll try this out as soon as I can.

  • Registered: 2007-01-16
  • Posts: 8

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

3. I think there should be an option in all games to allow the player to switch from auto- to manually-scrolling text/dialogue and vice versa. A lot of newer games simply have voiced-over dialogue and captioning at the bottom of the screen that moves as the characters speak. This is not accessible to people such as myself, who cannot hear the voice-overs and cannot read the captioning fast enough. They should have an option to turn off the auto-scroll, so that you push a button to manually scroll through the text, as was done with older games and is still done with a good deal of the RPGs, however, action and shooting games have almost entirely been switched to voice-overs with auto-scrolling text/dialogue, which makes them inaccessible to people such as myself...

As, a programmer I see one slight problem for why this was not used. Having to press the button would make the video pause and stop over and over runs into issues. With RPG games it was used in way so players could take to time to read and looped mouth movement for the character. A hassle and annoyance for our target audience. In new games because companies have the technology voice over is because it is geared to are target audience.

First, no one can exactly add full transcript after every video for every game. Because doing that takes resources, both for technology and for the company itself.
Second, most videos are pre-duologue in video to keep them in-sink, so you can not make button controls work. There would need to be a second script, for each movie.

I suppose it depends on the game, some parts I am sure will need work for disabilities. I am sure it can be done but, the market to re-accommodate everything for users with disabilities is very small.

Could you not borrow someones standard video camera (with instructions), sort out the shutter-speed and contrast if necessary for the best results, then blow up the image onto a standard TV / PC Monitor?

You can in fact use the PSP with a monitor if you have the right peripherals.

Last edited by gmgene (2007-01-17 00:42:26)

Topsites for Game Makers: http://gmgene.ifastnet.com/topsites/
  • Registered: 2006-02-03
  • Posts: 294

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

If you look at most DVDs you'll find they have been subtitled, and transcribed into a variety of languages. This includes many low budget films. This opens up the film to millions more potentially. This would be the same for games.

Subtitles/closed-captions help those struggling with unfamiliar accents (for example, the film Mad Max was redubbed into American accents because it was thought the target audience wouldn't understand the film otherwise). Subtitles help people who are hearing impaired/deaf. They help people learning English.

The market for this concession is big. You'll find some more thoughts on this here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Captions/petition.html


Regarding the resources not being there to include accessibility features.... this is just a cop out. Take a look at PugFugly's "The Pyramid" to see what can be included by a sole coder in just 3 months in his spare time. http://www.pugfuglygames.com/html/the_pyramid.html

  • Registered: 2007-01-16
  • Posts: 8

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

If you look at most DVDs you'll find they have been subtitled, and transcribed into a variety of languages. This includes many low budget films. This opens up the film to millions more potentially. This would be the same for games.

Subtitles/closed-captions help those struggling with unfamiliar accents (for example, the film Mad Max was redubbed into American accents because it was thought the target audience wouldn't understand the film otherwise). Subtitles help people who are hearing impaired/deaf. They help people learning English.

The market for this concession is big.

I was talking about in caption controls regarding being able to button through the game captions. I was not talking about static captions or re-dubbed video.

Although about re-dubbed video. Most of the time for foreign markets there is just a loop with no dubbing at all to save costs.

Lets see if he works for 1 hour a day and gets low minimum wages it would cost:
90*$6.50US = $582US
Now, also that time could have been used for other things in games that would improve sales more then providing accessibility to a relatively small user group. You have to count the time used, how much it costs, and what can benefit the most.

Also, it looks to me that it was made from a hobby compiler (Most real work was all ready pre-made). Using a real compiler and actually coding the individual system allocations would take more time.

Last edited by gmgene (2007-01-19 23:19:33)

Topsites for Game Makers: http://gmgene.ifastnet.com/topsites/
  • Registered: 2006-02-03
  • Posts: 294

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

I think you miss the point that many accessibility features (I'm broadening this out now) benefit many gamers. Also, what makes you so sure that the ageing and disability markets are small? I don't know if I'll be able to make you see any other way, but cold capitalism isn't the stumbling block to adding accessibility to games, it's the general ignorance and resistance to researching this properly.

  • Reid
  • Game Designer / Writer
  • Offline
  • From: Eugene, OR
  • Registered: 2006-04-03
  • Posts: 13

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

gmgene wrote:

As, a programmer I see one slight problem for why this was not used. Having to press the button would make the video pause and stop over and over runs into issues. With RPG games it was used in way so players could take to time to read and looped mouth movement for the character. A hassle and annoyance for our target audience. In new games because companies have the technology voice over is because it is geared to are target audience.

Most games now are using in game cinematics that rely on scripts to process what happens at what time rather than pre-rendered video. This means pausing after dialog is entirely possible and should be done if the user wants it to. The wonderful thing about digital games is that they can be customized to provide the experience the user wants and developers would do well to look into how to enable users to customize the experience for themselves. Customizing the experience, service or product is the future of all commerce. There will always be designers who control the end result, but there's also a great potential and benefit to allowing the user to have the experience they want.

Game Designer / Writer
http://game.rbkdesign.com/

Reid's Website

  • Registered: 2006-11-29
  • Posts: 8

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

I just want to add an example. The game Radiata Stories for thie PS2 had voiced-over dialogue for nearly, if not all characters. As a result, it also had auto-scrolling captioning. However, this game allowed you to pause during cutscenes, which froze the image and the captioning, but the voices continued as normal. When you unpaused, the captioning and the image continued to proceed as normal, allowing you to pause again when the next set of dialogue appeared. I know pushing the pause button every few seconds during dialogue gets tedious, but it completely opened up the game for me, allowing me to read all the dialogue and thus get the full story.

Now, look at Final Fantasy X... Most of its dialogue sequences are done in exactly the same fashion as Radiata Stories, however, it does not allow you to pause the captioning as Radiata Stories did... I believe it was totally possible for a giant such as Square-Enix to do this, however, they did not, and it was a small developer such as Free Radical that went the extra mile (Radiata Stories was published by Square, but developed by Free Radical).

It's not a matter of can or can not do; it's a matter of will or will not... Pausing auto-scrolling captioning HAS been done, and I didn't hear Free Radical complaining about the cost of doing it, and they have considerably less of a budget than Square. Square could have enabled pausing captions, and thus sold FFX to more people such as me, and I'm sure it would have more than covered the cost of doing it.

I think big-name games such as Final Fantasy, Halo, Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, etc, etc, are the games that should be made accessible before all the rest; it just makes the most sense, as they sell more copies, and thus get better advertising and have far bigger budgets. When you hear about an awesome game, or ask a guy at a store what a good game to buy is, you will usually hear about one of the big-name games. Sadly, the way things seem now, the big-name games are the LEAST likely to be made accessible. The reason for this, other than laziness, escapes me. I agree that the "It costs too much!" excuse is just a cop-out.

If more games enabled pausing captions, I would certainly have a much, MUCH larger game collection....

  • Registered: 2006-02-03
  • Posts: 294

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Well said!

  • Registered: 2007-05-19
  • Posts: 5

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Can any body email the contents of these links to my email (sanches52@yahoo.com), please?:
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  • Registered: 2006-11-15
  • Posts: 3

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Dear eight-ball:

I have played with the nintendo Wii, but only briefly;  The Wii is a compact light-weight console with a single remote (called wii mote), wireless internet connectivity and it fits both gamecube and wii games.  It also has a number of accessories; such as a zapper, nunchuck and classic controller.  The wii was designed for the average consumer-not gamer.  Depending on where the sensor bar is; thats where you sit I had to sit in my electric chair and placed the sensor bar across from me.  Some games will require the use of two hands, while others can be used with only one hand.  I have about 36% control of my left hand and 100% of my right and the game I played was excite truck.  It is possible to play this particular game with one hand, but it can be difficult.  Whereas a game such as twilight princess requires to hands.  You do not need to jump all over the place and move every part of your body to use the wii-most of the time; simple wrist movements will suffice.  I suggest you email nintendo, like I did and question them about your concerns.  Nintendo of America gave me a list of vendors with specialty devices. 

Don't knock the wii until you try it-its killing the big dogs of the business.  Wii's are sellin' out faster then an athlete wearing corporate logos

  • Registered: 2008-05-07
  • Posts: 15

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

Hmmm... I could try that... I no longer have my PSP, though; I returned it after I saw it glared on the CCTV like the GBA/SP/DS do. But, I can borrow a PSP from one of my friends and tinker around with this idea. I don't think it will work as good with the DS, though, due to the 2 screens and whatnot... Thanks for the idea; I'll see what I can do with it. The equipment won't be hard to find. I'm just thinking actually setting it up will be the hardest part... Oh well...  I won't be able to try it immediately, as I am currently away from home. I'm at the Helen Keller National Center in New York (i.e.: no PSP access...), but I'll try this out as soon as I can.
http://www.hotdvdtools.com/video-tools/ … wners.html

  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 1

Re: I've got a few things I'd like to cover here...

thanks for the thread